Eli and Al,

Please take  your fight somewhere else. This thread was started to discuss impending changes in ISSFA.

Russ

Linda,

I posted a link to where Politefab was anything but polite and was making threats along with the usual suspects.  Are you expecting me to treat him like he was an unbiased poster?  Don't you think that when someone takes a stance his reputation is important?

 

Russ,

This isn't the Issfa BB.  You want to be the Issfa spokesperson, so answer the questions presented.   You are being given a great opportunity here to show what Issfa can do to bring togther the industry, especially with this issue.

Here is your first challenge.  Polite fab doesn't believe there is an issue with some granites, despite his involvement in the Dark Room over at the SFA site, so he attacks those that are working on the problem.   As an association that plans on representing all materials and all fabricators, how is Issfa going to deal with this?

If a product is suspected of being dangerous, will the "new" Issfa take a stand?

 

How will you deal with competing interests between the products and fabricators?

A question to all the members of Fabnet.   Has Fabnet been able to deal with this issue effectively?   Was the problem dealt with openly and without rancor?   If not, how is possible for Issfa to charge dues and truly represent all products?

 

So.
Is this some kind of record for major thread derailment or what?

Eli, okay, you think one of the main disadvantages of solid surface as compared to other premium materials is looks. Ok, I can respect that. I disagree, but there it is.

Al, you think every thread needs to revolve around radon in granite.
No, you really don't. That was my mistake and I apologize for it.

It just seems like you do.

Tom,
I rarely say this, but you are completely wrong in this instance.

If the thread was derailed (and it wasn't), politefab derailed it.  But he didn't, he brought up that  the esscence of an organization which is to represent it's members.   Now, who is Issfa planning on representing?  The actual fabricators, as in the guys running the sanders and grinders?  The shop owners?   The manufacturers?

If it is the fabricators, what about health risks?  Why aren't they in the middle of this issue and helping find the answers?

There have been inumerable threads on product comparisons and charts, and we all know it is ridiculous to think that a single chart would be agreed on by the different material fabricators.  We also know that granite is the crack of the countertop world, profitable, easy to sell, and the profits have saved a lot of shops over the years.

But, along with the granite comes a host of issues on safety of both consumer and fabricator.  So I ask again, how will this new Issfa deal with representing a product  known to have potential risks?  Will bringing in granite sully the reputation of quartz and solid surface?

Yeah, he provided the match.
To be fair, I opened the book.
You struck without closing the cover.

Can we get back to the original point?

Sure....

Eli:

It is good to see you here. I have read your technical posts and seen your pictures on stoneadvice and was very favorably impressed.

The Fabnet will benifit from your perspective, so please stick around.

Joe

P.S.:

I value your opinion, so please check out my estone repairs and let me know what you think: http://www.thefabricatornetwork.com...fault.aspx

Although this thread is about ISSFA changes, it seems to appropriate to talk a little about some recent events as it is indicative of the current spirit at ISSFA.

At the recent regional meeting Todd Werstler announced that ISSFA was successful in getting a solid surface specification guideline added to AWI's (Architectural Woodworking Institute) specification guide. This is a big deal. For those of you who do commercial work you probably still see solid surface countertops specified as 3/4", which means extra work in educating the GC and/or architect and making sure your quote includes the proper list of exclusions. With the correct spec in the new guide, that problem should begin to go away.

Lenny can speak to this better than I, but it is hard to appreciate the kind of work that goes into getting a product specification adopted. I was amazed to watch the process in the days when Lenny was with ISSFA and actively working with ISO (I think that's who it was. Is that right , Lenny?) to get an international spec adopted. It was a years-long process that included extensive peer reviews and required developing relationships with scientists around the world who would assist in moving the process forward. Unfortunately, after several years of effort Lenny left the association and the effort was stopped dead in its tracks.

Getting the AWI to adopt specification standards for solid surface wasn't nearly the effort Lenny was involved in, but it still required many hours of labor donated by members of an ISSFA committee tasked to complete the job. In many ways it was a labor of love, since most people in the industry don't even know who was on the committee or even that it created such a benefit for the industry. Thus, whether you belong to ISSFA or not, sometime in the future architects will begin using the AWI specification guide to properly call out solid surface in their projects.

It's a small thing that will have a lasting positive effect on our industry.

Russ,

Didn't Oxlely fire Lenny? Isn't that why the standards work "was stopped dead in its tracks"? If this was so important, and I guess it was, why was Lenny fired?

You aren't convincing me yet that Issfa can handle what it has much less representing other products.

I'm sorry. Did I say I was trying to convince you of anything?

Well, then why are we having this conversation? Why did Issfa send you here?

Obviously they want something, what is it?

Russ, there were three questions and one comment in the post above.  Usually, one answers the questions, not the comments.

I really respect the fact that you have been inside this industry for so long, you probably know where the bodies are buried, so to speak.  I just wondered, after reading your post on the excellent job that the Issfa volunteers did on the standards,  why Lenny was fired since from your post he seemed to be essential to this effort.  Maybe it is just me, but if I was going to fire someone, I would either be able to get by without the guy, or have his replacement lined up so that my business wasn't adversely affected.

I guess running an association, wearing a suit and all that, makes a guy much smarter than fabricators like myself.   Obviously there was a reason why the standards were intentionaly delayed for all these years since Lenny was fired.  I am just wondering why, since it seems so important to have these standards in place.

So, did Oxley fire Lenny?  Can you tell us the plan behind all of this?

It is just so confusing, this association leadership stuff.  I guess I ought to go back to dabbling in nuclear physics and chemistry and leave this to my betters.

You might want to read my opening statement on this thread. My only goal is to share information and listen to comments. The last thing I want to do is try to persuade anyone to like or join ISSFA. In fact, I think I may have even said in that first post that anyone who is uncomfortable with the association should leave it alone until/unless it proves worthy of consideration (I'm paraphrasing here).

I do, however, have a strong interest in folks being informed about the association -- especially any changes -- from a first-hand source.

Sorry, no other agenda here.

Russ... since Oxley has burned so many bridges, is there any talk of replacing him? This may help to bring credibility to the association. Also, where do you, or the BOD, see ISSFA fitting into the marketplace? There are any number of other organizations representing other products. Will the trade show, which I understand ISSFA has no control over, also include all surfacing products? Will you be embracing Laminate also? Cultured Marble? etc ?

This could be good for the industry.... IF...

Darned Wags,
I had a really nice post written, but we posted at the same time and mine was lost.

But I like your's too.

Great post..... Anyone got some answers ?

Al:

Perhaps I can answer your question.

Several years ago, I attended a regional ISSFA meeting in Ohio. It was the first time I had ever met Robert Oxley. We were having a nice discussion, Bill Wolle and others were there. Oxley announced that Lenny wasn't following the ISSFA mission (I'm paraphrasing), then he said "I fired his ass." That is a direct quote, no paraphrasing whatsoever.

I was completely shocked that Oxley would reveal personnel information at such an informal setting and the complete disregard he showed for the possibility that he may have been speaking to friends of Lenny's at the time, which he was. Complete unprofessionalism.

When I revealed this conversation on the old ISSFA bulletin board,  Lenny totally flipped out. Oxley called Lenny in China at three in the morning to backtrack, to little avail. The board went down the next day. Coincidence? Lenny and I have had great laughs about this incident.

On another point, "I'm sorry. Did I say I was trying to convince you of anything?"-Russ Lee

Al, again one of the biggest differences between Russ and me is that he is completely unflappable. You will not get a rise out of him. I don't think I've ever seen it done and I doubt you'll be the first. I'm trying to be more like him in case you and others haven't noticed.

I hope this sheds some light on things.

Joe

Thanks Joe, I like it when I get answers. So much more fun that way.

But I am quiet distressed by your comments as well! Oxley has used explicitives in public? Against a fellow employee of the association? Pardon me while I go wash my tender ears with soap. Then I am calling his mother.

So, it seems that Oxley is responsible for this lack of standards?

Russ, would you agree with that statement?