Al as you and others have noted here, there is quite a few folks that would like to see management changes at the top. You, of all people, know my thoughts on this. Will you indulge me in allowing a period of time, say, spring, when your question(s) can be answered more clearly?

You and I are joined at the hip in this particular matter. It is either you or I that was seriously dishonored in one particular action. My opinion and conditions on rejoining is very clear, and I would think parallel yours.

With the economy going the way it has been, my focus will need to be on my little company. I am willing to check fire until it becomes relevant, which would be at dues time. If my conditions don't pan out, I will once again not renew my membership. At least three others in my state have not renewed, and I can guarantee that trend is not going to slow down soon.

I truly hope that the association will be worthy of yours and my input and volunteering for things that may help. Same with Joe. Same with Wags. I think any association would benefit from the help that you guys can give. They need to prove they deserve it. We need to give them time to undo many, many things to get there. Let them do what they will do to show us what the new direction will look like.

Let's decide then.

Will you do that with me?

And I loved the "calling his mother" bit.


Just sayin' yo.

"You and I are joined at the hip in this particular matter. It is either you or I that was seriously dishonored in one particular action. My opinion and conditions on rejoining is very clear, and I would think parallel yours. "

Tom,
Oxley only dishonored himself with his behaviour. However, to rejoin knowing the character of Issfa's leadership would certainly dishonor us both.

Besides, if they want an organization that covers all products, why don't they just resign their positions with the International Solid Surface Fabricators Association and strike out on their own?

Yeah, I have seen their poll, but who in their right mind would trust their numbers?

Tom,

How have you been?  I rejoined last year, but I will not renew my membership this year.  I haven't even heard from anyone at ISSFA this last year.  However, I did receive a very nice and expensive publication from them.  Definitely, it was top quality for what ever that is worth.   

It was good talking to you today, Andy.  I look forward to catching up on a whole lot of reading. 

Mory

MORY!!!!111!!!
How the frak are ya?

I owe you about a bazillion phone calls, if time is measured anyway.
Lots going on in my little life. I hope you haven't felt the crunch, yet.

I had some great talks about the direction ISSFA was taking last weekend. Like I said, I'm keeping my powder dry - for now. Kurt Bonk is someone I can do business with, and it seems Todd W is ok. The main thing is Russ, as thew communications officer on the Starship Henderson.

If they are prove to me they are worth it, I will rejoin, but as Russ sez, the shoes on their foot. I need proof BEFORE I write the check.

Mory:

Good to hear from you.

Joe

OH!
Before you check anything else, Mory: do a search for "weekend sound thingy". It should take you to some cyber site where a bunch of my songs are stashed.

When your ears start bleeding, you know you have heard too much.

Hey Wags. Obviously you already know there is no way a consultant to an organization like myself would have any authority comment on the status of somebody's job. So, don't expect any speculation from me.

On the other hand, I know many people have issues with Oxley. In this respect it would disrespectful of my friends on FabNet to pretend there haven't been problems. What has been said on this thread and others could probably fill a small book.

So whatever issues exist I would like to add my observations of the past six months, wherein I have had occasion to observe and work with Oxley. I consider Oxley a very good friend. I know what kind of hours he puts in for the association and I have listened to his hopes, fears and dreams for ISSFA. I think he cares very much for this association.

I say this not to influence anyone's opinion, rather to give you my take on the character of the man as I know him today. Also, I'm not asking anyone to forgive and forget.

You asked how the BOD envisions ISSFA fitting into the marketplace. It is true there are other organizations out there who represent other products, which I think is a good thing. ISSFA will exist to provide a home, or a gathering place, where people in the industry can come to learn about the latest products, innovations, ideas and best practices. Will it supplant other associations for example? No. In fact several members of the BOD belong to MIA and have been accredited by that association. Our current president was also a past president of the ICPA.

Producers and manufacturers of new products and services will come to ISSFA from all over world because they will know that is where the folks who care most about their products and who the most influence over the end-user will be. Fabricators will come because that is where they will see the latest products and innovations and have the opportunity to meet the principals of teh companies personally. They will also have the opportunity receive training in how to fabricate those products. Most of all, it will provide a melting pot where everyone can mingle and learn from each other.

I'm sure you will more questions, so I will stop there.

By the way, did anyone even notice in my earlier post that the AWI has adopted the standard for specifying solid surface in the commercial arena? Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Russ

this one of the reasons that i have stayed away from issfa and the solid surface crowd for as long as i have. the constant wining and politics are defining. there are to many people in this industry that have opinions and any thing different from there opinion is just wrong plain and simple. in my opinion that a stupid way of approaching any industry. issfa needs to change its approach tho the COUNTERTOP industry. for the fabricators that want to stay in 90's than stay there the # of shops that fabricate solid surface only is shrinking and will continue to shrink to stay alive in todays market diversity is key. if some one walks in and says i want granite in my kitchen solid surface in all of my bath rooms and laminate in my laundry room we will fab it all for them. it makes us exclusive in our area they dont want to go to 3 different or even 2 different shops. if issfa and other organizations dont start to realize that with the # of different products on the market and the # of new products on the market every year. we will end up with a hundred different separate organizations. the smart ones are the ones that are adaptable and open minded. solid surface is no longer a premium product and in the last 6 years i have only heard people that strictly fabricate it still call it a premium product. 5 years ago i was doing holiday inn express hotels in solid surface with the lobby granite now the lobby and all the rooms are granite. E.S(engineered stone) has also taken a hold on the market. the comcast building in Philadelphia was done with ceasar stone. now we are selling recycled paper tops. (ugly as hell) but for tree huggers want it as well as the recycled glass. we sell that as well all of these products we fabricate. you guys are going to argue yourself into your own demise. or just get left in the dust. i did a project like 3 years ago for low income family's(stste project) all the tops were solid surface 3 years previous to that a similar project was all laminate. industries and markets change. you can fight it and get left in the dust or you can be intelligent enough to see it and adapt to it

Mory,

It's about time for our quarterly chat. We should catch up sometime soon.

Jon or Russ,

Can you post the wording for the AWI listing for solid surface so we can see a little clearer how it will effect the SS fabriators?

Is it really completed, done, for real?  Been waiting a long time.

Linda

Hi Linda,

Yes, the completed documents received the blessing of the ISSFA BOD on June 13 of this year and were submitted to AWI for publication in their next manual. Jon probably knows the timing of the publication better, but I think it is sometime next year. At the regional meeting Jon's boss Grant Garcia also mentioned some ideas regarding installation that should be added to the specification and Bill Wolle indicated they would also be included in the newly published spec.

By the way, Jon was a member of the committee that made this happen. Also on the committee were Gus Blume, Jon Lancto, Kurt Bonk, Todd Werstler, Mike Job and Bill Wolle. This is a perfect example of how like-minded individuals made the world a little bit better for all of us through selfless volunteerism. We owe them our thanks.

Another aside: it was Jon Olson and Tom Mather who got the ball rolling last year at the ISSFA meeting in New England by voicing the need.

The documents are posted at ISSFA's website in the member's section and are also included in the Architectural Presentation Kit DVD (more about that later). The docs are in pdf format, which I don't think can be attached to this forum. Am I correct on that assumption?

Russ

Mory  couldn't say it better myself.

 

I threatened promised to talk a little about the new ISSFA Architectural Presentation Kit which was unveiled at the regional meeting in Devens last week. It's taken a little while for me to go through the DVD because there is so much great information on the disc.

First there is a vintage Architect's video featuring Brennar Children's Hospital in North Carolina. It is a comprehensive case study that shows before and after images of the project, interviews with fabricator Jon Lancto and the interior designer who specified the solid surface in the hospital. The designer is very complimentary of solid surface and gives specific reasons why she chose that material over any other.

There are the AWI solid surface specification documents and the ISSFA Classifications Standard.

Then there is some really cool stuff for anyone wanting to create relationships with architects. First, is a powerpoint containing dozens of images of really cool projects accompanied by a script. The fabricator can choose to use the script as outlined or simply modify the slides to fit his/her own presentation. There are also a series of checklists (this smacks of Bill Wolle) for pre-registration, sign up sheets, thank you letters and an overall presentation checklist.

The kit is absolutely the most comprehensive tool I have ever seen for putting on a stellar architects lunch and learn or similar event. The DVD, which carries a price tag of $295 for non-members is available to ISSFA members free of charge. I haven't heard yet whether ISSFA will be sending the DVD to all members as a matter of course, or if they will wait for members to request the DVD and then send it out. Either way, if you are an ISSFA member and you have any intention whatsoever of doing commercial projects or working with architects this is an absolute must-have resource material. If you are not an ISSFA member, I think it is worth the $300.

The only thing missing on the DVD is an awesome video the guys at Jon's shop put together which Grant used in his presentation. Ya know, there's something bad wrong at Sterling Surfaces -- they have way too much fun.

Geez, Issfa giving something away?

"Lets forget about the past and keep moving forward."

Jon,

Let's say you have an employee who cronically comes in late.  You have a talk with him, forget about the past and move forward.  How does that work out for you?


Or a builder that always a problem, rush jobs, drags out payment forever or just doesn't pay at all, picky on illrelevant things, you know the type.  On his next order,  do you forget the past and keep moving forward?

Now, I read your comment wondering how many jobs were lost from not having this standard, so I know you realize the cost of having Issfa ran by the same guy, but how can anyone really forget the past?

Russ,

So Issfa is finally not going to charge their members for something put together by the volunteers with Issfa funding and over head, well, shouldn't that be the case from day one of Issfa?  If due support the organization, why was Issfa charging members for stuff?

All of a sudden, Oxley has gotten religion or something and we are supposed to act like funds raised from solid surface fabricators and manufacturers were not used to promote other products like quartz?  We are supposed to forget that the money provided to support solid surface is now being spent to support competing products?


All we need is Bill Clinton wagging his finger, "I did not spend Issfa funds supporting the competition, Miss granite."

Issfa rotted from the head down.  Chop off that head, and return to it's roots and you might save it.  As it is, Issfa has to show up at Fabnet and beg for a second chance to screw the industry again?   I'd say do it at the Issfa BB, but if it were up, it would be deserted.

That tells you all you need to know.