well Norm, if that is the case and that is the policy of other associations...we should then point out to those ...
that Nobody on this site represents their association as a whole..

however if you are a wingnut and happen to be a President of that particular association...then we might think wingnuts are electing wingnuts...just kidding but ya get my drift...but for the most part I really dont read peoples posts as if they are a title of an association anyway...RESPECT is earned personally

 they and all should be on this site as individuals...but
dat sux if what Norm says is the reason we can only see posts with youse ISSFA BOD members who get the ax

I hope more ISSFA Bods get on here..you know we treat them as indivivduals anyway and welcome them with open arms...ISSFA BOD get conversating with us....its a wonderful industry to be missing out on any single part of itonly hurts us all...welcome

Thanks, Jon.  I appreciate it - when one door closes, another one opens, right?

As far as additional changes go, that remains to be seen.  Unfortunately, with me gone and Bill focusing on modifying the educational offerings, I just don't know what's next.  Hopefully, the feedback from the nice folks on this board will help Russ steer the BOD and Oxley in the direction that best serves the fabricators.

BTW, I'm unaware of any offical ISSFA stance on FabNet.  I've always been way too busy to post, especially since I was working on improving the Membership department, but I've always tried to read up on current events!  Same for Bill, I'll bet. I know he's posting here so he can hit as many key people as he can while he's still at ISSFA, getting the word out about his availability.

I was going to start becoming a regular presence on the ISSFA forums before their modification began, that way I could start discussing potential ISSFA changes with the members in an open forum.  Since that was running behind, I just decided I could reach out to you guys here on FabNet.  Andy was cool about letting me know to keep ISSFA "marketing" in check, and I was glad everyone seemed to be receptive to Russ, so I jumped in.

BTW, everyone at ISSFA thought you really outdid yourselves with the Sterling shop tour - you should be proud!

Thanks a ton, Gene!  That means a lot to me, especially since I'm still a newbie in the industry (and you're an "old hand").

Mike Langenderfer's a great guy, and I hope to continue talking to him well into the future.  His shop is like so many others I've heard and talked about since I've been involved with the trades, and just because he's on the board doesn't make him "untouchable".  He sees the same issues, encounters the same roadblocks, and "walks the walk" - I got along great with him and he would be an excellent ISSFA BOD President, if he so chooses to volunteer.

So when I see you at the next industry event, will you score me some extra drink tickets, too?

Yeah, I thought throwing you a curve-ball right away would be a great way to meet you!

Like I said in my post to Jon, I'm unaware of any policy at ISSFA that prevented us from interacting with our members and non-members on FabNet. Our absence was due primarily to the fact we have had a forum and daily work to do.  (I know, I know, working hard or hardly working, right?)

Since we are ISSFA is in the middle of a revamping and revitalization, I thought it best to get more info from another source I hadn't tapped yet, but I wanted to be above-board with it and register, not just "lurk".  Andy's cool enough to let us on here, so we're respectful enough to keep the discussions professional and focused.  I can see how it can be a strange coincidence, but I really have no ulterior motives here.  Just wanna be part of the group.

And now I really can be, since I've now suddenly got a little more time on my hands...

ZSouth,

Interesting post. This site is great, Andy and his team are fantastic, dedicated and driven people. Dont worry, Im sure you will go onto fame and fortune. Everyone who is no longer associated with ISSFA has. When I joined ISSFA in 2000, we had a tight team. Mike Duggan, Sandy Milroy, Steve Bace, Stan S (I cant pretend I know how to spell his last name ..it was a parade of consonants), Later Lauren and Gay and the accountant Al who was hired to straighten out the dismal ISSFA books..

 

Lets do a roll call of ex-ISSFA employees.

 

Sandy Milroy a marketing genius, in addition to being talented at publications.  now works for Cygnus.  I met her a few months ago in Vegas for dinner to chat up old times. My wife genuinely liked her, which was no surprise to me. Good people generally like each other...Sandy Resigned

Steve Bace, the developer and originator of ITEC has gone onto Festool fame.>>>STEVE RESIGNED

Lauren is in Canada repping flooring  and building products.  ..LAuren resigned.

Stan has a lucrative real estate business going on in Vegas.

Al and Glenda are like Samuel Simpson Day to me …whereabouts unknown.

Then there was Bill Wolle after Steve resigned. A good guy. I see they eliminated the ITEC and Bill also. Bill is a good guy, talented teacher, and fabrication and fab tech guru.;;Dept Eliminated.

As for me it’s a long story. Let me give you the abridged version. ..Dept Eliminated

I was hired in in 2000  by Mike Duggan, a visionary, former publisher of Solid Surface mag., and founder of ISSFA.  He gave me  a contract, I red lined it, we signed it.

9/11 happenned. The ISSFA BOD freaked and decided to sell the show (a big mistake IMO). I know how crisis can effect people, some people blink, others like me don’t. I do well in the face of adversity. I tried to tell them it was a very bad idea. That show made a half million minimum for the association in PROFIT, but it fell on deaf ears. They got IMO a pittance for it. The grand ISSFA plan was to bank the bucks and live off the interest (a bad plan). Now they hawk useless seminars to make money. Membership has diminished as there IMO no value in ISSFA membership.

The sale of the show  led to my demise. I was called in and told my dept was eliminated. I said OK where is the Check? They were baffled. I said Dudes, I have a contract, you have to pay me out for the year. I gave a copy of said contract to Oxley.

Oh I almost forgot, Oxley was hired in the interim . I gave him a copy of my contract. Its my belief he used it to write his own ironclad one. His biggest complaint was that I made a cool 10 grand more than he did. It seemed to cheese him off. He asked  me one day…did you write this contact? I answered it was a collaborative effort between me   and Mike. He said that’s a good contract.

Anyway they called me in, and denied any knowledge of my contract and they claimed the  BOD member who counter signed it along with Mike, had no knowledge of it. . I said I gave it to Oxley, when he arrived, every employee here was a witness to both the negotiation and signing of the contract.  If I must I will call my lawyer and when I win, I will rename this association the Lenny Solid Surface Fabricator Association.  It seemed to strike a chord with the fellas.

I gave up some sick days and some vacation (on the advice of a friend) who said throw the old telemarketer a bone, cash out and get your check all at once.  I did exactly that, and established my current international biz which has made mad money.

That’s the history which you may or may not be aware of. I know lots of ISSFA secrets, where all the bodies are buried.

And finally we come to you, Z South-Apparently Dept eliminated. So whats your story? You seem like on face,  a fine, upstanding young man. What exactly  was your job at ISSFA?

Just Curious.

Lenny

 

 

Lenny:

The revolving-door employment policy is symptomatic of the complete abdication of leadership by Oxley and the ISSFA Board's of Directors, past and present. Fabricators, ask yourselves, "What shape would my business be in if I had this kind of turnover?"  It's one thing to get an occasional bad apple, but ISSFA has thrown out some of the best apples this industry has ever grown, as evidenced by their lives afterward.

Generally, employers get quite used to "employment at will" and take complete advantage. It's so refreshing to see an employee with enough brains to hammer out a signed employment contract and see that contract work effectively for that employee as you did. Great story.

Back in our speaking days, Oxley told me ISSFA had Bill Wolle in the succession plan for his job. I guess that's out the window. Hey Bill, get some Board meeting minutes, maybe you'd get a legal leg to stand on if you didn't have a contract.

Guess what the number one item is on the ISSFA Mission Statement. Education. Since they're closing ITEC, I guess they'll have to change the Mission Statement as well as the name. By the way, I nominate the Lenny Solid Surface Fabricators Association for consideration. It has a nice ring to it.

Guess what the first item in Article ll, Objects and Puropses, Section 2.1 of the ISSFA Bylaws addresses. Education. I guess they've got some more rewriting to do. Do you think ISSFA founder Mike Duggan put these things in order of importance? If he did, he thought education was second only to the name and offices of the organization which is Article 1.

Lenny, I've never been shy about respectfully disagreeing with you and now is no different, regarding the sale of the show. The money the show netted at the time is irrelevant. If ISSFA got three million for the show in cash, that's six year's net profit in one big fat lump. One would have to calculate the time value of money as well as the value of significant risk aversion, gained by the show sale. Judging by the show attendance recently, combined with the decline of solid surface in general and the slowdown in the economy, that is a very significant number. Plus, one has to calculate the value of the ISSFA staff time it took to net  the half million. I would go so far as to say the show sale, in hindsight which is always 20/20, may be the single example of vision so sorely lacking in all things ISSFA.

And if I may answer for Z, he filled the Membership Manager position formerly held by Oxley's wife Christine. The fact that he was just hired and now terminated again reinforces the idea of complete rudderlessness on ship ISSFA.

At the risk of sounding I-told-you-so-ish, I believe I predicted this dramatic ISSFA restructuring when I publicized the ISSFA tax returns (public documents) which clearly demonstrated present spending levels were unsustainable. I ain't no CPA, but even I could see this coming. Thankfully the board got a bit of vision again also.

Joe

Did Zary say he was terminated?

Kevin

I think a more appropriate term would be "Let Go" or his position has been eliminated due to association being restructured.  The reason I say this is because of Google searching.  If someone in the future types in his name, this thread will come up.  Without reading the entire thread, some would read into it that he fired because he didn't do his job.

Joe,

I must agree with Lenny on the sale of the show being a bad move.  The problem is that when you sell and lose control over the show and the magazine, you lose control of the goals and focus.  There is not one voice.

If Mike and Joanna were to do it all over again, the magazine, show and association should have been under one umbrella.  Just like NKBA has all there message designed by one group.  This is not to say that the Surface Fabrication Magazine and the Cygnus show are bad, but it left ISSFA without a voice.

Also, ISSFA still spends huge amounts of time preparing for the EXPO whether they own it or not.

When you have a huge windfall of money sitting in an account, you lose your drive and motivation to be the best.  The hunger is gone and you become passive, almost afraid to spend the nestegg to benefit the members.

Rather than let speculation continue, Zary tendered his resignation to ISSFA a couple of weeks ago. The separation between ISSFA and Zary was congenial and without rancor of any sort. Both sides, as I understand it, wish each other well.

I, for one, always appreciate your candor Russ.

Getting the straight story, even if it is "I can't tell you" is very difficult sometimes. Your honesty and integrity are well received.

Thanks for your input. 

Thanks for fielding that tricky question for me, Russ.

Out of courtesy to Oxley and the association, I agreed simply to notify people that I was no longer serving in my position at ISSFA, and not to spread word as to the circumstances or details surrounding my leaving.  We felt it best to keep things "under wraps" until the BOD was made aware of my departure.

When non-BOD members were contacting me over the weekend regarding my separation from ISSFA, I felt it safe to reply to Norm's thread and, in the process, let everyone know I was no longer ISSFA's Membership Manager. 

And Russ is right - I do wish ISSFA well, and continue to take interest in their success for the future.  That's why you haven't seen any derogatory or denigrating statements from me regarding the association or its leaders.

Thanks to you all for your interest and continued support - I appreciate it!

Hi Mr South,

Welcome to fabnet. Youre smart and articulate. Im sure you will be an asset here. Dont worry, as stated before , its onward and upward for you!

Oh I left one guy out. The most important guy..Mike Duggan or Mikey Mike as I like to call him. He is studying law, and either is or almost is a lawyer. Mike would make a great lawyer, and I expect good things from him. F Lee Bailey and Race Horse Haines, watch your backs! We got a new sherriff in town and his name is lawyer Mike! . Has Mike passed the bar yet? I havent heard from him in a bit.

Joe,

Dude! We can always disagree and remain friends. One thing I forgot. Sometimes that show made a million in profit (during the glory years when I was there). MAybe you could go back to those Nasty ISSFA tax returns  and peek in there. Was that ever claimed?

Andy,

my feelings exactly!

Gordon,

Thanks for pointing out my error. I erroneously listed Samuel Simpson Day in a prior post. That erudite Gordon informed me it was actually Daniel Simpson Day. I was incorrect in misquoting the holy grail of American Cinema.Animal house. My apologies to all, please forgive me.

 I cant believe I made that grievous error, since I haven’t had any snake wine in months. They just don’t have good snakes in the US. Only 4 species of snakes here. Copper heads, rattle snakes, and water moccasins. FYI hemotoxic snakes (venom attacks the blood) make crappy snake wine.

The best wine is made from neurotoxic snakes. We do have 1 neurotoxic snake indigenous to the US, the coral snake, which is only found in the everglades.  The wine actually attacks and distorts the toxins so they become a TONIC and are actually good for you! Maybe I need to come to the show in Orlando with a burlap bag and make a side trip.

Whos up for snake wine?

 

Lenny

 

 

Lenny, between myself, Mike and Gene, I think we can come up with a bag of coral snakes, I gotta see this

Norm,

I was premature. Snake Wine has to age for 1-2 years before drinking, or it could prove fatal. How about this? I procure some great snake wine from Asian sources, already aged and bring it to the show. I will try to go for the best, past the mountain snakes ( Cobras)..And we can have a nightcap.

I will , however take you up on the offer of the coral snakes..I can dump them  in rice wine and 1-2 years later, me and the illiustrious Norm can have another drink.

Your the best Norm!

Thanks,

Lenny

 

 

And all this time I have been trying to avoid coral snakes, how about a fruit snake?  They kinda look alike, what's the saying, red meets yellow kills a fellow, red meets black, good for jack, although maybe not good for Lenny.

Lenny:

I'll drink whatever you bring, right after you.

Joe

I'm likely gonna be really offended once I find out what an erudite is.....

It's kind of like articulate, but for white folk.